Official Luthiers Forum!

   With all due respect to the OLF, I just have to pop in and say my piece on the things i`ve been seeing since I first looked in on the furum.
   What I`m about to say in this post is not meant to single any one person out for ridicule, and Lance, feel free to edit this post out of the OLF if you deem it necessary, and I`ll keep my mouth shut.
   We all are adults here, and we know that we have the right to our own opinions, point of view, and so forth. But...
   I`m still new to this forum and don`t feel that I have any say-so in the rules and regulations, nor do the rest of us unless appointed to the proper positions. In my opinion, it looks like there`s yet another witch-hunt going on. Some time back and it hasn`t been very long, someone had trouble getting delivery on an order. Why was everyone bashing that vendor when it was a matter between two individuals? Come to find out, the problem wasn`t with the two people, but with the delivery service!
   Is jumping to conclusions and causing hard feelings the answer to the problems we meet in life? I think not!
   Look, people, life is not fair! Nor will it ever be. We have to meet life on life`s terms, and not our own. Just bacause someone has an opinion on the way things should be done doesn`t give them any right to grab up a rifle and go out for someone who thinks differently.
   That being said, let`s move on to the situation at hand.
   To those who have been booted out of the MIMF and other forums, clubs, associations, or whatever: Don`t think you have to bash those who set the rules or regulations. They have thier duties to perform. As was said in another post, it`s thier sandbox, and they can make up the rules. If they don`t want trucks and tractors, then you can`t bring yours in and tell them that`s how it`s going to be. There are other sandboxes to play in. You may not get along with Billy today, but after time passes and we grow up, hey Billy is a pretty good guy!
   This is a free world (so far). Let`s keep it that way!
   I do have to agree that the forum should be for the exchange of information, techniques, and even personal events that we like to share with one another. The commercial end of it should be made a different deal in itself. Sure, we need sponsors and vendors, and they should have every right to post thier ads and wares on the home page. They are paying for that priviledge, are they not? Ah, there`s that special word- "Priviledge". Priviledge is something that is given, not just taken.
If someone has something they want to sell on a public level, should they not be required to pay the price for making thier presence known, whether it be in monetary measures or actual "legwork"?
   On the other hand, free exchange of information is a mutual agreement between two or more individuals. When someone asks for or posts an idea for a jig or procedure, for example, do they also ask to be recompensed? I know I don`t and won`t in the future either. We all love to see the ideas, work in progress and finished masterpieces on this forum as well as others.
   Mario, I have to hand it to you, man. When I saw a few of your posts, I thought "man, this guy really is a grumpy old so-and-so", but as time went on, I see where alot of your remarks really do hit home with me. My apologies to you, sir. When I read your post this morning, You really did gain respect from me. By the way, I`m pretty grumpy more often than not myself!
   Hopefully, like a fine wine, we get better with age.
   Lance, do you suppose that maybe it`s time to set some improved guidelines as to content and intention on this forum, and to maybe put a fork in the road between the exchange of info and the commercial end of things? That may just head off problems in the future. I`d like to take this opportunity to volunteer to help you on your end (I`ll email you later).
   Everyone else, let`s pound those swords back into plowshares! Whadyasay?
   As for the problems we can`t handle ourselves, let`s leave them up to our higher powers. Prayer works!
   I`ll get off the pulpit now.Cocephus38582.3134837963

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

With all due respect, I'm not aware of any slander or libel in the thread you are referring to. Slander and libel are explicitly false; what was commented to were largely facts coupled with people's opinions of those facts.

   Sorry, Jerry, I shouldn`t have used the words slander and libel. I know better than that.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

One of the things I see happen to online communities which frustrates me is that sooner or later a culture develops where if you disagree with someone it is considered rude and in poor taste.

And you seem to be supporting this idea.

I think having a discussion about John Hall's situation is relavent and gives the community an opportunity to voice their opinions.

I see nothing wrong with it. And, in reference to the thread about the wood. As, I recall the outrage over that situation was NOT the shipping practices as much as it was the response to a question given by the vendor.

Free and open discussion should be supported, not quashed.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

If a thread contains opinions that do not slander, libel or express falsehoods then it should not be censored, provided it conforms to the rules and bi-laws of the forum

If for any reason someone may disagree with the direction of the thread, the way I see it they have two choices: express their opinion in the thread, or not participate in the thread

While it is true that this forum's main intention is to share info on our trade or hobby, by nature we also form a community that communicate with each other mainly on topic but on occasions off topic.

I have seen far less bickering on this forum than any forum than any other forum I have been associated with. I see no reason on the threads implied for censoring to take place.

Make saw dust and be happy
MichaelP38581.6347453704

   PLEASE, EVERYONE.
In no way, shape or form did I mean to offend anyone!
Perhaps it`s only my perception of what I see, and I really do agree with both sides to a certain extent.
   My most humble and sincere apologies to all.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Well, I have to admit feeling a little guilty airing my frustrations over Deb in public. More than likely, we all have had similar situations. I guess I can certainly see Cocephus' and Mario's points. It's ok to have gripes about someone, but I sort-of feel like we all took the opportunity to whine over the stuff, at least I did. For that I sincerely apologize.

Even Lance would probably have issues with someone showing up every now and then just to advertise a product, because it isn't fair to those who have paid good money to advertise on the site.

What I really appreciate here is the fact that we've all agreed to participate on this level, and to everyone's mutual benefit. A true spirit of cooperation. We have some great people, and some great vendors here, who aren't threatened by the other competition. And why should they be? Over 3oo guitar builders with Wood Acquisition Syndrome. That adds up to "plenty wood to be sold".

Seems to me that the OLF has a philosophy that takes into account the bad concept of "putting all your eggs in one basket".
To date, I've done business with The Zootman, Colonial Woods, Brad Goodman, John Hall, and a bunch of others to whom I sold wood. We have a good thing going here...and we all benefit. No need to rag on someplace else.

The MIMF has a purpose and fills a need, as does the OLF. The great thing is we can choose to go wherever we feel comfortable about getting our needs met.

The truth is, we're fortunate to have these choices.Don Williams38581.684224537

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Well said Don!

I love the way this forum works. I agree there could be a problem with a vendor who just popped in when he needed a few bucks, but John, and Steve and most of the other sellers on this forum are BUILDERS. I see them not only adding tremendously to our knowledge, but offering their solutions and materials to help us. They are very concerned that we learn to build and if they, who can already do it right, want to show me the tools and wood with which they work, I'm all for it.


Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Couldn't agree more with your points Ron

Russell

Yep. Good thoughts by Ron.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

THIS IS WHY THIS PLACE IS SO GREAT. WE AGREE TO DISAGREE
OUTLAW HALL
   I have no personal ill will towards Deb. MIMF is hers to do as she wishes and Mario is free to feel his way.

NOTE TO ALL:
I edited yesterday`s post in order to make amends for inapropriate use of words and comparisons. I had no inkling of "Godwin`s Law". Please excuse my unintentional ignorance.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Makers and Venders in this site bend over backwards to give assistance. On more than one ocassion one vender has referred me to another who was a competetor. Also, The ability to receive information about where to buy x is invaluable. I don't know If I would have ever found some sources without the information; or the information pro and con about a supplier or maker's products. I and others have also come across great deals and posted the info.

I think, for these and other reasons we see such a reaction to ill treatment or comments about other members. There is a 'warm fuzzy feeling' between members and members with the forum. This closeness brings the same reaction as mistreatment of a friend will bring.
don't mess with my buddies. If they need it i'll do the messin'